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Orioles Uni Unveiling — the Official “Announcement”


Here’s the official invitation to the November 12th Orioles fan event (click for full-size). This has already made the rounds a bit, but I wanted to go ahead and put it up anyway. The hint on the cover there is pretty clear, but as we discussed earlier there’s a lot of buzz about changes beyond just returning “Baltimore” to the road grays.

I’d say this: don’t be too quick to believe any of the rumors. That’s not to say we shouldn’t enjoy the speculation, of course, but nothing’s official until it’s official.

Anybody else going? What about an official Loss Column Beers After the Announcement meetup? Anyone game?

Also: light the hot stove!

48 comments to Orioles Uni Unveiling — the Official “Announcement”

  • some facts.

    question for any “official jersey” owners…(A club i’m about to join)

    M, L, XL?…or are we talking about 38, 40, 42, 44 sizes?

  • df1570

    More O’s news to report today.

    Evidently, the team is NOT interested in spending money on Derek Lowe.

    You can read about it at http://www.wnst.net if you’d like.

    “We don’t want guys who can only help us win for a couple of years…”

    Yeah, who would want to win for “just” a couple of years?

    Wow.

  • ryan97ou

    man they must be looking forward to a HUGE crowd scheduling it at noon on a weekday.

    would love to go, but will be at work in dc.

  • I’ll be there. Dunno’ about post-beers though. I have to go back to work afterward.

  • Andrew in Rochester

    @some facts I have 2 jerseys at home, but as I’m at work at the moment, I can’t help you…but I’ll be sure to check later, although I’m inclined to guess its M, L, XL, etc.

    @Drew I thought about your post a while today and I have some response thoughts. 1) Lowe pitched well last year, but in the incredibly weak NL West, where he didn’t even have to face off against the best hitting team from the division (the Dodgers). Instead, the Padres, Giants, Diamondbacks, and Rockies aren’t exactly a strong basis for determining who is and who isn’t a good pitcher. But that isn’t to say he isn’t a very good – great, even – pitcher…but he is in the decline phase of his career, and coming back and facing the potent lineups of Boston, Tampa Bay, and New York would probably bring the end of the line faster. And yes, some guys pitch until they are quite old and do it pretty well. But you’re just as if not more likely to end up with 2007 Mike Mussina as 2008 Mike Mussina…and that would be very, very bad. So if I were Andy Mac, I probably wouldn’t be chomping at the bit to grab him either.

    But! Who are we targeting exactly? I guess we’re on the record re: Burnett, but so are a bunch of teams. And we definitely need someone else to fill out that rotation (although a healthy Burnett and Guthrie anchoring a starting staff sounds mighty good to me…). Who is that going to be, exactly? Why not Lowe for 2 or 3 years (as if he’d take such a short deal anyway).

    Anyway, for once in my life I can’t honestly take a side in this Lowe thing. But I don’t think it’s a matter of unwillingness to spend money, I really don’t. Maybe that’s my character flaw. I think it’s an unwillingness to spend a lot of money (Lowe will probably be the second or third most sought after starting pitcher this winter) on a guy who has seen his best years already when we really, actually do need to be focusing more on youth.

  • df1570

    I only use Lowe as an example because my source at OPACY told me about him today…

    I’ve said this over and over…I don’t really care who they sign. They can pass on Lowe if they want.

    I just want them to do what they’ve obligated themselves to do. I want them to spend OUR money…the $144 million in revenue they generated in 2008 (or, WILL generate in 2008) is supposed to be used in part – after expenses – for buying players.

    That’s what they said three years ago. “We need to establish a TV network to be able to compete with the powers in the AL East.”

    The Lowe situation is laughable because he’s better than any pitcher they have right now but they’re not interested in him because “he’s too old…”

    But, it’s not really about Lowe. It’s about any player. Burnett? They’ll probably come up with an excuse for him since they can’t use the age thing w/him. They’ll use the “disabled list” as a reason to not pay him. Sabathia? “Can’t pay someone who only works once every five days that kind of money…” Sheets? Can’t be age, must be durability.

    Is Derek Lowe going to suddenly become ineffective overnight? Mike Mussina didn’t in 2008. Neither did Jamie Moyer.

    But, I repeat, it’s not about Derek Lowe ONLY.

    It’s about getting them to fulfill their end of the bargain.

    For the last 12 years, they’ve not done that.

    Not a low blow…just a fact.

  • Andrew in Rochester

    That’s a fair enough point. But like I said, I think we will see some money spent on quality guys this year. When they don’t, I promise I’ll be on the leading edge of yelling and screaming. I simply doubt it gets there.

  • dan the man

    I love that people like Drew are already jumping on the O’s for not signing guys when none of the teams are actually allowed to sign free agents on October 30th. I mean, can we wait at least a week into the signing period before we talk about how the O’s haven’t signed so-and-so free agent in the past? It’s not the past. And screw Lowe, he’s freaking old. I guess I don’t get the whole “let’s preempt every Orioles decision with disappointment” before that decision can be made because people who ran the Orioles baseball operations in the past didn’t do a good job. Those people are gone.

    I also don’t get the uproar on Orioleshangout.com about PA nixing the firing of Stockstill after AM apparently wanted him out. Like anyone can even know that to be sure, for one. Two, what has the guy really done wrong? It’s going a bit too far with the “AM needs 100% control of everything” line of thinking, I think.

  • Greg

    Eh. I haven’t decided if I’m going or not. I have some vacation to use, maybe I could sneak out of work for an hour… I can do happy hour drinks after five, but probably not during the day.

  • df1570

    Yeah, who wants a 35-year old guy who just finished four seasons with a very-average offensive team and yet still compiled a winning record, had an E.R.A. under 3.90 each of those years and also managed to average 211 innings per-year for four years…

    Why take him when you can have YOUNG pitchers who have an E.R.A. a run above the league average, can’t win 10 games, let alone go .500, and barely make into the 5th inning before throwing 100 pitches and calling it quits.

    Those old guys like Lowe, Mussina and Moyer can’t pitch anymore.

    They’re “freaking old”.

    Let’s stick with those young guys we have like Cabrera, Burres, Olson and Brian Bass and let’s lose with them. Sound thinking, that.

    And the only reason I “jumped” on them is because my source at OPACY says they’ll pass on Lowe because, quote, “we don’t want players who can only help us win for a couple of years…”

    Yeah, sure would hate to ONLY win for a couple of years.

    I mean, heck, it’s been, what, a year or two since we last won, right?

    Who wants to win for only a “couple of years”?

    Someone send me a season ticket brochure…I’m ready to sign up based on that logic.

    Next week when I hear from my bird on a tree that they’re going to pass on Burnett, I’ll be putting a red hot poker in their ass then too. When they fail to sign a proven shortstop, I’ll be haranguing them on that point as well. And if they don’t spend money in the off-season to bring in quality free agents, they’ll get the Ned Beatty treatment from Deliverance.

    The Orioles haven’t played a game that mattered since 1997.

    Not a low blow…just a fact.

  • some facts.

    wow, the punching bag turned the new uniform thread into another one of his peabrain whining O’s rants, this time about the O’s not signing a guy before the signing period even begins…

    Not a low blow, just a fat fact.

  • Greg

    Drew has become the grandpa of the board who still can’t stand the “coloreds” and makes that fact known every time someone is around to listen… everyone else says “oh, that’s our silly grandpa!” and gives him a big hug and cheek pinch, meanwhile he goes back to gnawing on his dentures trying to forget about “the big one”.

  • dan the man

    I’m just saying why go after Lowe when we could have Burnett. Or both. I’d be down for both, but we have a better chance of landing Burnett and he’s younger. And if anyone is going to pass, it’s going to be Burnett himself – the O’s are committed to making a serious run at him. Again, with the preemption/expectation of disappointment. Why do that?

    And yeah I’d actually much rather have young pitching than old. That’s just smart baseball. I never said I wanted specifically Liz, Olson, etc.

  • neal s

    @Greg: calling Drew out on his weird misdirection strategies is totally relevant, but the “coloreds” remark goes a bit too far. I get the point you’re making — and I think it has merit — but that’s some pretty loaded language. So, you know, that was a bit much.

    Here’s the bigger point, @df1570 himself: have you ever considered the possibility that the reasons for not signing certain players might actually be solid?

    Let’s pose a hypothetical where the O’s don’t sign any of the following players: Lowe, Burnett, Teixeira, Mussina, Garland, Furcal.

    One might look at such a scenario and proclaim: “See that? They lied to us. They’re not willing to spend!!”

    Truth is, though, that as much as I’d like to see one or all of those guys in an O’s uniform I can also easily see a pretty solid argument against each and every one of them.

    The bigger question, in terms of the long-term health and success of the club, lies in how they’re handling their proven talent, top prospects, and draft picks. Under AndyMac’s stewardship they’ve shown improvement in each of those areas, and it was just today that the Sun reported on the team’s desire to lock up both Markakis and Roberts.

    The idea of spending money — MASN money — should not be directly tied to how many free agents they sign. That’s a poor indicator of the extent to which an investment is being made in winning. The real indicators are organizational thinking and strategic decision-making. If they’re showing progress in those two areas, the free agent question simply falls in line. Follow the plan, in other words. From where I sit, that plan seems to involve investing in prospects and building an organization.

    Do me a favor here, Drew. If you want to refute what I just wrote, please take it point-by-point and provide direct and specific counter-arguments. Don’t give me generalizations — just pick apart exactly what I said, using the terms I laid out. I’d be interested to hear how — and, indeed, if — you think those points are wrong.

  • Andrew in Rochester

    I’ll do it for him, Neal, and then get back at the Lowe bit with two points. It”s great to hear the Orioles using their money to upgrade the stadium, international scouting, etc. But all of that stuff can only get us so far if the players on the field stink. And the players in the starting rotation, first base, and shortstop STINK. They suck. It’s nice to see organizational thinking or whatever, but it would be GREAT to see the on-field product finally improve. Because it hasn’t. And it really, really needs to.

    Further, while you can make an argument against any one free agent, sure (and I will! Just wait for it!), but this is baseball: you absolutely need to be willing to take the risk that Derek Lowe won’t be any good as an Oriole next year, or that by the time his contract is up, Mark Teixeria is an albatross. We’ve been way, way, way too conservative with free agency – particularly starting pitchers – in the past decade (re: Mussina) and that’s a big reason why we’re no good currently.

    Now, on Lowe: This reminds me of a particular situation, where we had the opportunity to trade Bobby Bonilla and David Wells (correct me if I’m wrong about that). Pat Gillick wanted to get rid of those guys, because while it might’ve helped us for one (read: only one) year, we’d be much better off down the road with someone else. Angelos said, basically, why win only a few years when we can win this year. And, of course, you know how that turned out.

    Secondly, Derek Lowe’s performance the past few years has been stellar. But he did it in the very, very worst division in all of baseball. And we play in far and away the strongest division. So his record (which is in fact in decline, even if it is still strong) isn’t the best argument someone can make to me to say he’s the rotation cornerstone we need, as opposed to the younger, on his upswing (if healthy) A.J. Burnett.

    Like I said, I’m pretty torn on it…but I won’t declare mass failure because we don’t sign “the great” Derek Lowe, because we can win without him next year.

  • neal s

    Good points for sure, Andrew. Where I’d go with it is this: success is achieved from the ground up in any endeavor, whether it’s business or sports or whatever. And anyone who’s ever tried to do it knows that it takes time. Sometimes, unfortunately, lots of time. There are no shortcuts.

    With the Orioles it’s complicated. Normal rebuilding processes don’t take 11+ years, but we unfortunately had some idiotic stops and starts during that time that set the team back. So where the team should have been building the next wave of success after the 1997 season, they instead went about a disastrous policy of “win now”. That policy persisted for a bit and was then replaced by something we don’t even have a name for, which ran something along the lines of “don’t win at all, but let’s sign guys and see what happens, and oh yeah let’s not bother with due diligence on draft picks and scouting.”

    So, basically, the organization went back to square one when AndyMac took over. If you look at where we are now through the prism of 11 years of losing, it’s pretty tough. But if you look at it through the prism of “What have they done since the new regime took over?” then the evidence suggests positive change.

    All of which goes to the point that they need to sign free agents, but they need to do it smartly. And if “smartly” means that none of the blue-chippers end up here, that might — I stress might — be OK.

    If this team is going to win again it will be on the backs of Jones, Markakis, Wieters, Guthrie, Arrieta, Matusz, etc.

    I’m on record saying they need to bring in at least two quality starting pitchers and find a shortstop. I’ll be extremely upset if they don’t. But what I’m getting at here is that signing the marquee guys is not a panacea. It’s a strategy that has been tried over and over again and proven to be a crap shoot every time. The real concern is the health of the organization, not so much whether or not they bag Lowe or Garland or Teixeira.

    Although it would be OK by me if they bagged all three.

  • df1570

    You made a lot of good points, Neal. Many of them were precisely on-target.

    I don’t think there’s any need to refute any of them, line by line, because in general I’m in agreement with just about everything you wrote. How about that? I’m “in agreement with just about everything you wrote.”

    My view of it, though, isn’t nearly as complex as your view.

    Our starting pitching sucks. Not a low blow, just a fact. The ONLY guy on the staff that’s a reasonable major league starter is Jeremy Guthrie. We have some stiffs and a middle-of-the-road guy (Olson) who could be a contributor someday.

    In the meantime, who’s going to pitch? You? You Lieutenant Weinberg?

    So, simply, I’m saying this: Go out and get some starting pitching so we don’t get our dicks kicked in again next summer.

    That’s all.

    And since Derek Lowe is one of the 3-5 most attractive starting pitchers available, I say, “consider him”. In the same way I say, “consider Burnett, Sheets, Garland, Sabathia, Pettite and Dempster.”

    Yesterday, I wrote that blog because the O’s have evidently already discounted the signing possibility of Derek Lowe.

    I don’t want the starting rotation in ’09 to feature Guthrie, Cabrera, Olson, Liz, Bass, Burres and any other combination of rag-a-muffins that will lead us to 70 wins again (or 69).

    That’s all.

    Go out and buy some pitching. Go out and buy a shortstop.

    That’s it.

    I’m off to do a show and weigh myself.

    Have a good weekend y’all.

  • Greg

    My coloreds remark was being analogously used to hilight an outmoded opinion that isn’t widely shared by anyone else anymore in face of the times having changed; in the Orioles case most people (barring Drew of course) have seem to accepted that Andy MacPhail isn’t Flanagan, Beatty, Thryft or even Angelos and the club seems to be closer to “getting with the times”; and yet the people on this site are constantly berated for drinking the koolaid by Drew anyway…

    … I was not actually calling anyone a racist, or being racist myself … In the context of what I said was, I think calling ME out is an overreaction. I apologize anyway, I’m not typically a firestarter by any means.

  • some facts.

    your points were spot on Greg.

    you guys have a great site, and its transparent that you regulars love the O’s, baseball and make every effort to try and stay on topic and make this a great forum.

    Not to be a one topic poster here… and I would love to join in more… but I think I might exemplify why this site (as great as it should be) isnt growing and populating with O’s fans….

    Every single thread that gets going winds up with drew forrester coming in and shitting on it, bringing in his personal issues, and reducing every thread to his level. Every O’s thread is selfishly used to either A). advertise his site with a link , or B). he goes right off topic to HIS topic, his personal agenda to bash the orioles at every turn to somehow make himself relavent. Because of drew, The Loss Column suffers the same fate as wnst does… why would ANYONE want to talk O’s baseball with drew forrester? Look at the overcrowded boards at the Sun and the OH. One would think this place would get many more fans here, but with forrester a defacto moderator here, good luck.

    The guy is a stain on this site, and takes every thread down to his level.

    Watching this site over the summer and wondering why more decent O’s fans havent stumbled upon this site (and stayed), has brought me to this conclusion. Whatever. If you guys spent as much energy tolerating and trying to reason with this bully as you did attracting and welcoming new posters, this place would be much more than it is… today it seems to stand directly south of where ever forrester chooses to shit.

    Neal, Greg, Andrew and the others..you guys are fun to read and have a great outlook and love of the team. and you guys are the kind of guys i’d love to sit at a game with and have a beer. But wow, this place is tough to deal with when there is a bully here and he just gets pacified. We arent talking free speech either, we are simply talking about a loudmouth asshole.

    take it for whatever its worth… just look at this thread. We should be giddy (as I am) with excitement talking about potential uniform designs ( the O’s are getting NEW UNIFORMS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!), and it quikly turns into drews diaper, and you guys are once again trying to keep his shit in place.

  • neal s

    @Greg: I know, man, it’s just one of those pesky matters of language. Not a big deal, and I do think your point has merit.

    @some facts: Believe me when I say I’ve considered the things you’re talking about. I’m not sure I can compose all of my thoughts about it right now, but feel free to email me if you want. Suffice — for the moment — to say that it’s complex, and I’m working on it.

  • Brendan

    I think the only point that needs to be made is MacPhail is a 10x smarter baseball person that all of us put together.

    If he’s ruled out Lowe for some reason, well, I think it’s safe to say he’s got a good reason.

  • some facts.

    Neal, Hypothetical…

    What if one DID stumble upon the new logo before its released. What is your opinion about posting it here? I guess one could “click at their own risk” and there even could be legal ramifications that I’m not aware of. As I’m sure you know, Cris Creamers site gets ahold of these things in advance almost always!

    I’d love to share if I stumble apon it, but then again, would rather know if its agreed apon first

  • Brendan

    Also, I’ll definitely be downtown on the 12th.

    Also, related to what Andrew said. This IS a new team. I’ve viewed this team as a completely new team as of the minute MacPhail stepped in. I almost pretend the O’s left town and a new team came in. That’s why I can’t bash their ineptitude as easily as I used to – new team, new management, new direction (with the exception of PA, but he seems to have come around).

    I mean, I purchased season tickets for the first time ever last season. Ever! And I know a lot of people that did the same. MacPhail did exactly what he wanted to do in Year 1, and in my opinion with pretty good success. There’s not indication that he won’t be able to pull all his desired moves in Year 2. None. So for me, I just can’t see how we can view their offseason moves, drafting, and overall management with the same cynical perspective we have for the past decade. At some point you need to start over, because the team sure has.

    One last thing on why I think Lowe (or anyone over 35) would be a bad move. I see us in a similar position as Tampa was 2 (3?) years ago. They built smart, and never would have signed a pitcher like Lowe back then. Yeah, he may have won them a couple more games, but they stuck to their plan and voila, World Series. How are the O’s any different now?

  • Brendan

    Interesting idea on SI.com:
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/10/31/sheehan.trades/index.html?eref=T1

    Extend Roberts, move him to SS and sign a stopgap 2nd baseman. Thoughts?

  • Andrew in Rochester

    Roberts wouldn’t be very good at short. We’d be better off looking for a guy with experience at the position, and who we know can do it well, instead of shuffling the positions.

  • random dude

    I want to see us spend some money, and try to get younger at the same time. So I understand why we’d pass on Lowe. Not quite sure if I agree or not, but I understand. My question is, though, why so many people say we need to get younger, Lowe is too old, etc. but declare that we NEED to lock up Roberts (31 y/o, speedy, MI) as opposed to dealing him. In all honestly, I’d say sign Lowe, extend Roberts, lets spend some money, and it now appears that we have some front office people in place who can actually identify talent, so lets keep building that way while we spend. I’m just a little curious on why everyone is so quick to disregard Lowe, but say that extending Roberts is a must.

  • Greg

    I would like Roberts to be locked up because there isn’t a better option for him; if we don’t lock him up soon, he walks in free agency and kills his trade value (he becomes a rental at that point). I’d say trade him if there was a viable alternative at 2B, but there simply isnt one, and I’m okay keeping him on the team for 4-6 more years. He’s not a detriment to the lineup at all. At least, not yet.

  • Big Ben's Motorcycle

    man i can’t believe how polyanna you guys are sometimes. ever notice how the threads with the most responses are ones that drew posts on?

    if you want to have a site where everyone agrees all the time go for it but it won’t be as compelling to me.

  • Andrew in Rochester

    Yeah, I like when Drew chimes in. Gets the blood flowing and the discussion really heats up. Who cares if we’re talking about the topic at hand or not? I mean, what is there to say about the uniform unveiling besides it’s at a stupid time – I can’t make it, I won’t be back in the area for another week and a half – and a stupid time of the day – any of you workers can’t make it – but it’s still a fun and a good idea. Discussion over. Let’s talk about either a) what should the O’s do this winter (only 14 days left until open free agency…I assume we don’t need to talk to our free agents Payton or Millar) or b) what are the Ravens up to?

    Or, you know, if you like hockey, talk about that. But let’s not complain that we got off topic and had a pretty good conversation going.

  • Greg

    I keep pressing for hockey or coverage of any one of the 32 Orioles players playing in 5 different Winter Leagues right now.

    Matt Wieters and Brandon Snyder are cool, but did anyone notice that Oscar Salazar and Chris Roberson are destroying the ball?

  • neal s

    @everyone, regarding the discussions: what it comes down to is two things. One, this site is largely community-driven and that’s the way I like it. And two, just like any community, sometimes things get messy.

    It creates some challenges at times for sure, and I tend to err (if, indeed, I must err) on the side of openness. For the most part it works, but there are moments when some folks push the boundaries.

    So, when I launch the new design (which has been delayed a bit because the theme I’m using is in the midst of an update) I’m going to have a comments policy for the the first time. It’ll largely just be me writing down the things most of us already know, but I will make sure to include some parameters for situations (however rare) where I might need to terminate a discussion.

    It’s growing pains, is all. No big deal.

    @Greg: you’re right, man. Eventually I’d like to bring on one more person who’d be willing to contribute once or twice a week to help me stay on top of things like that. For now, as always, I appreciate the input and I’ll get on it.

  • Andrew in Rochester

    Neal,

    I follow the winter leagues pretty regularly – sometimes I even manage to find a video feed of a game, and sometime soon (maybe next year?) I’m planning on going down to Phoenix for a week or two to watch, because the AFL really fascinates me. But if someone with the affection I have for the AFL and HWB did weekly writeups, I highly doubt you’d get more or better information than you can get from Roch or Schmuck. That’s just my opinion.

  • Big Ben's Motorcycle

    neal why are you so sensitive?

    i’m not trying to be a deliberate pain in the ass or run your site but i don’t understand it.

    i’d love to see an example of a past thread that would get “terminated” under the new guidelines. also that concept is creepily orwellian to me.

    i never want this site to be the mouth-breathing trainwreck that several other sports sites are – but the thought of a bunch of sensitive sports intellectuals sipping mint juleps atop their horses discussing how beautiful the polo grounds look today is an excruciating thought.

    just imagine the andy griffith show without barney, goober, and otis.

    sayin’.

  • neal s

    How funny that this comment got caught in the spam filter?

    If I wanted to be “sensitive” or “Orwellian” I’d simply turn on the “moderated comments” feature the way a lot of other sites do. I don’t do that because that’s not the kind of community I want to create.

    The rules are fairly simple. Keep the discussion at a high level, no personal attacks, stay generally on-topic. When things veer off that course it usually only takes a gentle reminder to prod someone back down to earth, and I love that about this site. But to ignore the possibility that there might be a time where someone takes it too far is kind of silly. And, in the event that it happens someday, yes, I reserve the right to step in and say “alright, folks, we’re moving on.”

    That’s a bad thing in your eyes?

  • neal s

    PS – workin’ on the Ravens thread right now. And I have no idea what happened to Justin last week as far as the game recap — I’m bummed it never came through.

  • Big Ben's Motorcycle

    That’s a bad thing in your eyes?

    just be glad i’m not drew – i’d post “in your eyes” lyrics.

    i guess it was just the way you worded it originally that sounded like censorship. i just like friction and opposing viewpoints and drew seems like the only one who provides that on a somewhat regular basis.

  • Andrew in Rochester

    What about Ryan Dempster, guys? He’ll be out there and hasn’t been talked about much.

    If we got Dempster instead of Burnett, I’d be okay. If we got both I think we would all have to do some sort of celebration dance.

  • Chris

    I’ll agree with BBM on this one. In fact, Neal, I have to tell you that I’m disappointed in the way you handled this whole thing. I didn’t really see this thread until today so I know I’m coming in late but I’m shocked that you’d let someone with four posts (some facts) come on here with a very obvious and open agenda and try to chase off someone that has been posting here for as long as I can remember. Like him or not, and I’m not his biggest fan, at least Drew comes here and gives you his honest opinion and doesn’t call people “loudmouth assholes” while doing so. You took up for the wrong guy on this one, Neal.

  • neal s

    Fair enough, Chris, but I don’t feel like I “took up” for anybody. It sounds to me like that’s just the problem — you’d prefer that I “took up” for Drew.

    The problem is, I don’t think either of them were right. Nobody wins when something like this happens, and it’s a giant fucking waste of time. Short of deleting the posts (which I’m not going to do), all I can do is play it as even as I can and hope the people involved get tired of acting stupid.

    If it were up to me, we’d end this line of discussion, but I’m open to hearing what everyone else has to say if that’s how it needs to be.

  • neal s

    Also, for the record and because I know that somebody might take what I said and potentially get the wrong idea, I don’t have a problem with either of them or anyone else, and I welcome and encourage disagreement and debate. I think it’s pretty clear that I’ve run the site that way from day one, but I want it explicitly on the record.

  • some facts.

    problem is, it’s NOT the 2 of us… That’s the point some are clearly missing.

    I have what, 4-6 posts here all summer? and now all of a sudden I share equal burden of “dragging posts down” with drew? who has, …what 4,935 of them here?

    again, I’d post here more often, I’m usually at the OH… but all summer long all I read here is drew forresters crap, and every thread taken over by his “cause” of trying to make himself “the guy who you think of when the O’s do something wrong”

    boring. …and it happens ALL the time here.

    Again, could be me, But he is the SOLE reason I can’t stand this site and find it a difficult read, because he pretty much overruns runs this place with his freakish agenda…. (Odd that some enjoy that type of personality, but whatever.) It obviously isnt for most, because look at the amount of regular Oriole fans that post here… sadly, very very few. forrester is about as popular here as he is on his show with O’s fans…that is the 19 people that like THE BEHAVIOR HE EXHIBITS about the O’s… not the O’s themselves.

    One might think a a radio host would bring fans here, but take a look around guys. 9 people post here. He simply scares off anyone who has a reasonable love of baseball/O’s and want to engage in discussion.

    again, whatever, I’ll post elsewhere if you guys already view me as big a pain as drew, for daring to call him on his selfish behavior. If this place ever gets rid the the wnst south type of mentality, i’m sure it will flourish, cuz there are a TON of people who love great baseball/O’s discussing…

    I have an agenda alright… I like the O’s and baseball, and cant stand people who selfishly crap on people trying to enjoy that. That guy would NOT be tolarated at the OH, and was banned from the Sun boards. Aparently, he’s all yours.

  • Andrew in Rochester

    It’s strange that Drew overruns the site with his agenda, because he can disappear for weeks at a time, and the conversation doesn’t particularly miss a beat.

  • some facts.

    Take it for what its worth to you andrew. I’m simply giving you my opinion, as a guy who posts regularly at the OH, and stops by here on occasion to see if anything interesting is going on… and I tend to see the same thing going on here again and again. He takes the thread where he wants it to go… and you obviously don’t mind that.

    It’s obvious you really like drew, and enjoy what he brings to this site. cool, and I’m glad you enjoy his repetitive agenda.

    I just dont think, in general, O’s fans don’t bother with that guy. His show and this board, are for the most part, not somewhere Oriole fans populate.

  • Andrew in Rochester

    I agree, but he’s got a voice, and this is America. Who am I to say “Stop”? I’d rather argue endlessly with him over the direction of the Orioles, frankly, than rejoice with him over the direction of the Ravens.

    It’s more interesting to me that way. But is there anyone in Baltimore not excited about the Ravens this morning??!

  • some facts.

    I’m not, nor am i asking you to help “stop” anyone from speaking Andrew, I agree with you. It’s just some people have zero self-awareness, or are so self-oriented, that they need moderation.

    ….drunks at bars need to be told to cool it.
    ….Ravens fans screaming obcenities at the game need to be told to cool it.
    …and drew bashing the O’s at every turn needs to be told to cool it.

    otherwise these examples tend to ruin it for other people trying to be respectful and enjoy themselves.

  • Big Ben's Motorcycle

    hahaha some facts.

    it’s not evident that you read this site very carefully. EVERYBODY on this site takes drew to task almost 90% of the time no matter WHAT we’re discussing. the point is, are you that thin-skinned that you can’t handle one poster who has a viewpoint you disagree with, or in this case, a personality you despise?

    gimme a break.

  • some facts.

    once again big ben, you miss the point.

    “taking him to task 90% of the time”… is exactly what this site spends its time doing. Hence, no one is interested in the site.

    Unless one enjoys the pro-wrestling type atmosphere that all of that entails… which really is the angle of drews bluster that you apparently enjoy.

    whatever suits you big bens motorcycle.

  • Big Ben's Motorcycle

    nah what suits me is a viewpoint i can make fun of and opinions that piss people off.

    plus i don’t really care about the orioles but you probably know that because you seem to be in tune with this site and its inner-workings.

    now i’ll return to ravens threads where i really belong.