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Spring Notes 3

Baltimore Orioles 1964 throwback capRough start to the Grapefruit League schedule yesterday. But, really, who cares? Adam Loewen returned to the hill and appears to be fully recovered, so that’s good enough for me. Cross your fingers that a shaky first outing is the worst news we get about him this spring.

Could Brian Roberts possibly be more of a pro? I hope the Cubs continue to balk at AndyMac‘s demands. We’re better off — not just this year but going forward — with Roberts in the fold. I say this knowing full well that he’ll be gone before August.

Cal Ripken has attached his name to an online video game. Dude’s busy.

I said last year I would do this, but I didn’t. Maybe this time around…

35 comments to Spring Notes 3

  • df1570

    Hey, at least it wasn’t 30-3. Progress comes in many forms…many shapes and sizes.

    How’d Tejada do? Is that kid Hernandez really going to beat him out at SS?

  • dan the man

    Har har. Drew’s too cool to like the O’s. In fact, he’s so cool, he likes to pretend he doesn’t know Miggi’s not on the team.

    And I’ve heard that “at least it wasn’t 30-3″ comment about a million times around the O’s blogs.

    For once, I’d love to hear a comment from Drew either complimenting someone else’s good comment (I guess guys who have radio shows are above that – and apparently the extent of the positivity are jokes about people NOT slitting their wrists), or say something positive about the Orioles, without it being sarcasm, and without the paragraph following said positive comment being “But the organization…”. It’s sad when people can’t just get excited about the team they are a fan of, without feeling like they need to tame that fandom because of some organizational faults. Since when did organizational things take so much precedence over the teams themselves? Sure, I like to know what’s going on with MacPhail and the business side of things, but there has to be a time when you just enjoy the game itself and look for the good things in the players on the team you love.

  • Greg

    Hernandez will more than likely never be the shortstop Tejada was, but I think that may be something we have to get past at this point eh?

    He didn’t play yesterday, so we still don’t know how his Astro’s debut will look.

  • Joe the Guy

    you gotta live in The Now man…

    But keep coming back – we’ll keep you up to date. That’s what we do here.

    Last year’s bad memories are just that. They don’t matter now.

  • dan the man

    The Cubs scouted Brian Roberts yesterday and they must have been impressed: a double, 2 stolen bases, and a walk. Which brings us to the question: why was it even necessary for the Cubs to scout him? Trust us, he’ll help your team. And it also looks like the O’s are scouting Cubbie pitching and position players, too. This thing is going to get done, I think, and we’ll have 2 or 3 more young pitchers to throw against the wall and see if they stick.

    And then Drew will have been right in saying like mid-season ’07 that B-Rob would be traded this offseason. :|

  • df1570

    Dan, the “wrist slitting” thing was funny…or was supposed to be anyway. Relax, bro. Besides, it’s entirely possible to slit your wrists and NOT die. I did it last year when the baseball team stopped returning my phone calls and e-mails and I’m still here to talk about it.

    I didn’t know I had some sort of diplomatic role here to compliment all of you on your fandom…I don’t see any need to “help” you guys wave your Orange and Black flags, you all do a great job of that – and that’s NOT sarcasm, there. You’re WAY, WAY better fans of the team than I can be right now.

    Then again, you all haven’t been shit on by the club about 30 times over the last year or so, either.

    If you guys were getting a dirty Sanchez from the team every week or two the way I do (am), you’d be hard pressed to talk about your love for the team…unless you weren’t being honest with everyone and/or yourself. I can’t go on the air and try to convince people the organization is worthy of support when I observe their business m.o. and see how hateful and rude they are.

    Remember, boys and girls, Drew went to more baseball games in the ’70′s and ’80′s then some of you will probably go to in your lives. Roughly, I’ve attended at least 400 games in Baltimore (adding in the 75-100 times I’ve been to OPACY) and I’ve seen the orange and black play away games in, you ready? – Minnesota, NY, Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Arlington TX and Chicago. Add all those games up and I’ve probably seen somewhere around 425 games live in my lifetime.

    I went to 41 games (I remember that number because my goal was to see more than half the home games and I did) at Memorial Stadium in 1982. 41. With my money. Not Daddy’s money. Not getting free tickets. With the money I made (all $3.30/hour) washing dishes at Beefsteak Charlies in Glen Burnie.

    I loved the team and loved the game as much or more than any of you guys have or will, including you Dan.

    Then, unfortunately, I grew up. I ran a sports team that, if nothing else, prided itself on connecting with the community, caring about Baltimore and servicing its fans. We weren’t always perfect, of course, but that was our credo. Over the last half-dozen years or so, I’ve seen the local baseball franchise alienate the people in Baltimore, disregard the (supposed) connection that should occur between the paying customers and the club and, in general, stick their noses in the air and say, “you’ll do business with us the way we see fit or you can kiss our orange ass.”

    You guys need to keep loving the team unconditionally, because, as you’ve seen in recent years and will continue to see, most people in Baltimore have said “fuck ‘em” and have decided to spend their discretionary income elsewhere in the summer.

    Dan and the rest…all you guys have to do is keep being honest with yourselves. There’s no shame in being an unconditional fan of the team. None at all.

    I’m honest with myself every day when I turn on that mic. When I see the team make an honest effort to treat the fans right, the media right and ME right, then I’ll jump on board with you people and get an O’s tattoo on my ass.

    At least that way when they bend me over they’ll see where my loyalties are, right?

  • Joe the Guy

    Ass-tatoos…

    Reminiscing about Beefsteak Charlies….

    Deadhead-esque attendence statistics…

    Put it all together….it can only mean one thing….

    BASEBALL’S BACK BABY!

  • Andrew in Rochester

    Drew’s right. I love love love being a blind follower of the hometown team of the greatest sport. I wouldn’t want to quit on them ever. And yeah, we don’t ever get to see the stupid stuff, we just hear about it secondhand, so it’s hard to make a judgment call on it, really, when we’ve got actual baseball on our hands. Yeah, it stinks that Drew’s down on the team after such a lifetime, but I for one am perfectly content not “growing up”, and more power to me for that.

    At least it wasn’t 30-3 isn’t even, you know, an apt thing to say. This was spring training. Esteban Yan pitched, for goodness sakes. Some guy named Anderson pitched. Lance Cormier pitched. These are things that should never, ever happen in the real deal. Of course, Paul Shuey was pitching that fateful night…

    Whatever. I’m still jazzed.

  • Greg

    Drew, I don’t know who you are, nor do I care… but:

    Your post was really pathetic. Suck it up and learn to understand that fans worship an IDEA and not an ORGANIZATION. I’m a Baltimore Orioles fan. Owners will come and go, fan appreciation will wax and wane, players will triumph and falter. My appreciation for the sport and the team was largely formulated during the most awful years of it’s existence, which technically makes my reasons for liking them all the more inconceivable. The other people who post here (minus you, of course) can learn to love Baltimore Orioles as an idea, much like a person can continue love God in spite of things like zealots, hypocrisy, religious war and televangelism. I think that everyone is quite aware that the relationship between owner and fan is quite strained, we don’t need your help to underline the fine points of what exactly could be better about the situation.

    It really doesn’t matter to anyone here you went to 500 baseball games. You prove nothing by saying it. You can’t quantify “amount of fandom”. You prove this in your post by telling us how much of a loyal fan you were, and in the next sentence denounce the team for the way it is ran and sarcastically rag people on this board for continuing to “keep the faith”. What’s your point?

    If and when the Orioles make it back to contention, I’d really hate to hear you say that you were a true fan throughout the dark times.

  • Joe the Guy

    Greg,

    DF is a local radio personality. He offers some keen insight that the casual fan does not have access to. I usually disagree with Everything he says, but he is nonetheless welcome here. You should actually check out his show and maybe give him a ring sometime.

    His post wasn’t pathetic – it was just off-target and ranty. (Your religion analogy was perfect and I agree totally)

    However, he lays out, quite clearly, the reasons for his rants. He feels betrayed and left in the dark by the suits running the team he loves.

    I don’t agree with any of it.

    Our main problem a couple years back was the bullpen, we tossed MILLIONS of dollars at free agents and it failed. But we tried. We were in the Top 10 Payrolls last year for godsake.

    Our problem last year was Everything – so we blew it up. In my opinion, The Organization IS making a legitimate effort. He doesn’t see it that way.

    It does matter that he went to 500 games – it personally magnifies his situation when the O’s Media People treat him poorly.

    I don’t think that he was being sarcastic. He always gives us props as The Optimist O’s fans we are, especially compared to other blogs.

    He’s a bastard and I love him. I don’t know why.

  • Andrew in Rochester

    I thought Drew’s problem was with the suits running the Public Relations Department who refuse to talk to him in any context, and the guys who keep taking Baltimore off the team’s logos. In fact, I’m pretty sure Drew – like all of us – feels refreshed with Andy MacPhail’s deft leadership so far, but simply wishes someone like him were in charge of the area that he has to deal with professionally. And he has a point, but he always always always just rags on the team as an entire entity and rarely expresses any bona fide, unfiltered praise or optimism for the team, and is now refusing to call them the Orioles until…well, I’m not sure when, but…yeah, Drew’s a sarcastic guy. He’s jaded about the team, I think, and that’s his thing. It lends the loss column a little more flavor I think, and keeps the discussion from just bleeding black and orange all the time.

    But know that he bleeds black and purple just as much as anybody and understands how and why we feel the way we do.

    I’m done defending you now, Drew. Isn’t it Crushing Drew Day, anyway?

  • Greg

    I never said he wasn’t welcome here. I’m reading his post and seeing nothing but a pompous sense of entitlement, and I was personally offended by him having claimed he will and will always be a bigger fan than I am or could ever be. I’m sorry you didn’t agree with my post, but I feel that what Drew wrote really talked down to everyone here and I didn’t appreciate it.

  • Andrew in Rochester

    Yeah, that’s his schtick.

    Sarfate doesn’t seem like he had a good day out there, so demerit him (but he’s out of options and would definitely be picked up off waivers, so he’ll really have to suck to get put off the roster). Trash Can had a great day, but you know what? That means less than nothing.

    The Cubs are scouting Roberts on the right days. He must look like an MVP to them. Good for us. The better he plays the more likely it is they’ll give up a lot for him. I’d like to see something like: Gallagher/Ceda/Patterson…I think that would be alright, but Neal’s absolutely right, it’d be nice to keep him.

  • df1570

    I love it when a guy sits around and smokes a little weed and starts getting all philosophical about something that doesn’t deserve that kind of in-depth treatment.

    Enter Greg with his “it’s an idea — not an organization — that people support.”

    Got any Visine?

    If I’m supporting an “idea” instead of an organization, how come it costs me $45.00 to sit in the good seats to watch that “idea” play?

    If I’m supporting an “idea”, why do they make me pay $2.50 a month to watch the games on MASN that I’d rather have the “OPTION” of watching, minus shelling out $2.50 for the “RIGHT” to watch or not watch?

    The truth, Greg, and here’s where my experience will guide you a little bit (I apologize if that’s pompous-sounding), is that one of the reasons the ORGANIZATION is still up and running in Baltimore is because of the $15,000 or so that I’ve spent on the club in the last 30 years. Before that, my parents probably spent their own $15k in the 60′s and 70′s. Dan’s parents, Andrew in Rochester’s parents, Neal’s parents, maybe even YOUR parents, Greg, spent their money on the team 10-20-30 years ago and kept the organization alive for YOU to enjoy someday, which, 30-3 ass kickings not withstanding, you’re obviously dedicated to enjoying for some period of time now.

    This ownership group right now – they’re nothing more than caretakers for the club. They don’t OWN it. WE own it. They just make money off of it. They make money off of US. 30 years from now, the Angelos family will sell the team to someone else and that next family will caretake the organization for 25 years.

    The organization is just like a house. The house I live in right now…I don’t REALLY own it. Right now, the bank owns it and I pay the bank for the right to someday, maybe, pay the thing off and then I can really say that I do own it. If I miss three mortgage payments, the bank moves in and lives here and I’m out on the street.

    The people owning the club right now are paying off a debt service just like a mortgage. They get money from people like you to run the organization so they can make MORE money.

    I’m not complaining about that element of it, really, because that’s the American Way. Take a chance on a business, which they did in 1993 when they bought it, and see if you can turn a profit. And that, they’ll do.

    But the ONLY reason they’ll turn a profit on this ORGANIZATION is because of people like you, Neal, Andrew, Joe, Dan, me, my mom and dad and everyone else who ever went to a game (even before they owned it) or who walks up to the ticket window in 2008 and says, “I’d like to buy a ticket, please.”

    Sadly, they have forgotten that.

    They forget that those games at Memorial Stadium in 1971, 1981 and 1991 are just as important as games that are played there this season.

    There are a lot of reasons why the organization sucks right now.

    That’s one of them. Maybe even the biggest reason why.

    They’ve taken “BALTIMORE” for granted.

    Anyone have any Doritos?

  • Big Ben's Motorcycle

    i love this time of year for one reason. it’s when drew and i completely agree and pass the pipe of oriole criticism back and forth. we lay down our past and smoke at the altar of shared disgust.

    i truly admire your optimism fellas. i just wanted to say that i am the demographic that drew mentioned that said fuck ‘em some time around the albert belle fiasco. if they truly build something from the ground up i’ll be impressed. shocked is probably a more accurate word.

    but i won’t get on board if they start winning. fandom isn’t always unconditional love as some of you guys seem to think it is. to me it’s about caring about your team like a family which is hard to do when the family patriarch is always looming (perceived or not) in the backround.

    i realize that angelos criticism is tired at this point but when you’ve been screwed time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time over the course of your adult life you tend to say fuck it. not until he leaves. period.

    i respect your evident will to blindly root for a team based on your perceived ideas about what fandom means. but i feel like you guys need a better understanding of why 30,000 people a night have left that stadium. it ain’t just wins and losses. the orioles were my life. now i could care less.

    when i ask myself why that is it’s because i feel zero connection with them whatsoever. and when drew posts about that very thing i identify with it immediately.

    fool me once, shame on you. fool me thirty times, fuck you forever.

  • Andrew in Rochester

    I would venture to say that the diehard Oriole fans were never football fans either. I grew up post Colts, so I watched the O’s instead of football and it never got into me when the Ravens came back. It could totally be argued that the Ravens stole the Orioles’ fans more than the Nationals ever could.

    Anyway, poor day for Matt Albers, so he’s back to even in my tallying, after his superb intrasquad game. I’m heading out of town for a while (it’s spring break around the Great White North) so, keep the discussion warm until I get back!

  • Joe the Guy

    I can dig the house/caretaker analogy…because I’m stoned….

    but I hate how you harp on the decorations of the laundry. Meaningless. We’re going on a year of the “Baltimore” jersey arguement. Yawn. I’d like to see that retired, as well as the 30-3 jabs (2 of your last 3 posts)

    Seems to me The Organization is making an effort to turn it around, when it appears that they are not then I won’t either.

    Simple.

    Flip it around. If they had 10 winning seasons in a row, currently had a faltering team and The Organization didn’t address any issues…that would be just as despicable. How do Yankees fans feel right now?

    The Past doesn’t matter. live in The Now.

  • dan the man

    Greg’s “stoner” ideas, which are actually well thought out and intelligent, are exactly what makes your radio show so boring, Drew. Just because you get personally shafted by Orioles brass (and it’s hard to blame them) really doesn’t pertain to anyone who doesn’t have a radio show at WNST. I’m glad they shaft you guys. You’re all so fucking negative all the time and unwilling to have fun watching baseball that it makes me change the station every time you talk Orioles. Because I know it will inevitably end up negative when it doesn’t need to.

    Another $2.50 rant? Really? Man, I’ll personally mail you that each week if you shut up about it. I haven’t heard ANYone else bitch about that. The Orioles finally get their own network, which will definitely help the team in the long run, but of course you’ll go out of your way to find something wrong with it. Why? Because you get personally shafted by Orioles PR. It all goes back to your grudge agenda against the team.

    Look, I personally went onto your blog and left you a comment saying you should come back to TLC and post more and I stand by that. Obviously, your viewpoints generate comments. But damn dude. You sound like Ralph Nader harping on the state of politics. It’s not going to get you (or NST) anywhere, and we’ve heard the shtick year after year. Don’t be Bob from Parkville. Don’t turn into that guy, please. He’s a sour old man with nothing left to live for except voicing his bitter sentiments.

  • df1570

    I realize when you’re high your short-term memory is bad, Joe, so let me help you.

    We’re not going on the “Baltimore” argument for a year now. No, no, my friend.

    It’s been 15 years since the current ownership group gained control of the team. He’s had FIFTEEN years to get that shit fixed and he hasn’t. In 1995, the club removed the word BALTIMORE from the team’s official logo.

    The INTENTIONAL (that means, “done on purpose”) disregard for Baltimore and the heritage of BALTIMORE baseball as it relates to the baseball organization MIGHT not be offensive to you. I don’t know you from Adam –maybe you grew up on Long Island and moved here when you were 19. You might have gone to Parkville High School for all I know and you might be a lifer of the Land of Pleasant Living.

    Either way, if their intentional disregard for Baltimore doesn’t bother YOU, that’s fine. You’re living in the now, I get it. But, what about the people IN BALTIMORE who kept the franchise alive in 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990 and so on? Do those charlatans who run the club these days NOT care about what they might want to see as it relates to connective properties of “BALTIMORE’S team”? My mom passed away in 1987 and my dad passed away in 2003. They would be greatly offended by the team’s disregard for Baltimore and would be damn right pissed off with ME if they knew I wasn’t doing my part to at least remind those scammers in the Warehouse that the fucking team is part of BALTIMORE, not York PA, not Vienna VA, not Smyrna DE and not Fairfax VA.

    It might be “yawn” to you, bro, but it sure as shit ain’t yawn to me and if you ever took home a check for $81 when you were waiting tables at age 19 and then spent all $81 of it on the baseball team at Memorial Stadium during a 3-game home series against the Minnesota Twins with Jim Kaat waddling his fat ass out there to try and strike out Mark Belanger…well, then, you wouldn’t be yawning about the way the organization (or, make that, the “idea”) has ruined themselves at MY EXPENSE and at the expense of everyone in BALTIMORE (ticket buyers, sponsors, etc.) who propped the team up in the ’60′s, ’70′s and ’80′s — long before the cash-cow downtown stadium has been built that 35,000 people elect NOT to visit 60 of the 81 home games each year.

    I like how you say, “if they had 10 winning seasons in a row…” well, that would be like saying, “IF I had Shakira naked in front of me, would I start on top or on the bottom?”. They haven’t had ONE winning season in 10 years and none of us are having Shakira…let’s stick with reality and not travel to fantasyland with these “what if” stories about 10 straight winning seasons.

    I’d like to retire that 30-3 quip too. The problem is, it’s my most vivid memory of the team’s 2007 season and, since we haven’t yet played a game in ’08 that matters, it’s my quickest moment of reflection.

    Oh, yeah, I haven’t even mentioned once (until now) about how I do a morning sports talk show in town and the team has black listed me from doing my show at spring training and PROMOTING the team and helping them sell tickets.

    The past doesn’t matter. That’s a funny line, Joe.

    Tell that to Roger Clemens.

  • neal s

    Here’s what’s being missed in all this (which is, by the way, a great conversation):

    Drew thinks that he speaks for the Fan, while I tend to think Drew speaks for Drew. For him, a grudge against the O’s is given life by his sense that if the O’s are shafting him, they’re shafting us. I think that’s pretty clearly not true, but at the same time there is a vocal, extremely devoted minority of Baltimoreans who passionately agree with Drew’s perspective about the team. You may also know them as “WNST’s core audience.” And there is, in fairness, a lot of validity to the things they say. But to suggest that they are somehow more “right” than everyone else is pretty obviously silly.

    As for blind rooting or homerism? Nonsense. I’m a fan of baseball and I’m aware enough to realize that it’s really not that important. It’s important enough to enjoy, but not important enough to obsess over.

    I make the choice to enjoy. Nothing the team does can really fuck with that. I’ve never denied the bad things about the team, and in fact have been vocal about them in the past.

    You can take a cheap shot at Greg if you want, but he’s right. Dead-on in fact. If numbers are all we’re talking about here then of course you’re unhappy.

    Fair enough, but simply remember: that, too, is a choice.

  • Big Ben's Motorcycle

    neal i’m comfortable saying that drew speaks for 15,000 to 20,000 fans a night. there wasn’t a bigger oriole fan than me. my wife is actually delighted that i’m emotionally available during the summer now!

  • df1570

    Dan, I don’t give a fuck about $2.50 a month. I spend that much every day on coffee at Starbucks.

    I give a fuck about the fact that the organization keeps asking the FANS to ante up MORE money and yet they’ve done nothing at all to embrace the community they’re pandering to.

    That’s why it pisses me off.

    Charge me $5.00 a month if you’ll actually refer to the team the “BALTIMORE Orioles” and if you’ll put BALTIMORE back on the road jerseys. Charge me $5.00 a month if you’ll allow Jim Hunter to call the team the BALTIMORE Orioles during the broadcast. Charge me $5.00 a month if you’ll retire Elrod’s jersey #44. Charge me $5.00 a month if you’ll honor the ’66 World Series team (2 years to late, but why live in the past?).

    It’s not about $2.50 a month, it’s about gouging us all for MORE money and not giving us anything in return. I don’t really even give a shit if they win, frankly. Just pretend, at least, like you care about BALTIMORE and people might go back if you market the thing correctly.

    And it’s not just about ME getting personally shafted by the team. Who are the people really getting the shaft? That would be anyone who happens to be listening to me at 7:42 in the morning when I would like to have, say, Adam Jones on the show for 9 minutes from Ft. Lauderdale to talk with him about the ’08 season.

    I’ll have Eric DeCosta of the Ravens on with me next Tuesday morning to talk about the draft for 15 minutes. Ravens fans who listen to the show will enjoy that.

    Baseball fans who listen to the show would ENJOY hearing Andy MacPhail, Kevin Millar or Jamie Walker talk baseball with me and, naturally, that excitement could lead to people buying tickets to the games this year.

    Baseball people in town get the shaft when the club compartmentalizes themselves and doesn’t let their personnel appear on WNST, WBAL, WCBM, 92Q, etc.

    All of this doesn’t have to “get me anywhere”, Dan. I haven’t had someone from the team on my show in 3 years and I have sponsors, listeners and contributors every day. They can go on sticking it up my ass if they want and I’ll continue to be honest and report the truth and if they don’t like it, that’s their cross to bear.

    As Denzel said at the end of Training Day…”they can shoot me…but they can’t kill me.”

  • neal s

    Drew speaks for a lot of people, for sure. But I believe them to be a minority. I think that they are one segment of what has become a deeply fractured fan base. But they are the most angry/disgruntled/betrayed — whatever. That’s different from “bummed about the team” or “lost interest” or “don’t have time for it.” I think progress and, eventually, winning would, in fact, bring a lot of the 15k-20k back. Maybe not you or Drew, but a lot of them. I stand by the idea that it’s 70-30.

    My point is simply that it’s up to the individual to decide how they want to feel about the team — the team has no Yoda-like abilities. I can choose to complain and moan, or I can choose to get excited about Adams Jones and Loewen, Dave Trembley, etc. That’s what I like.

    I also like the fact, though, that you and Drew are here to tamp that down. We need both perspectives.

  • df1570

    Neal needs some math help.

    The stadium holds 48,000.

    At one point, 48,000 showed up every night.

    Now, for 21 of the 80 home games, 48,000 people show up, about 50% of which are real fans of the BALTIMORE team and the other half are there to stick it up our asses that they can come into our park and watch THEIR team but OUR team.

    In the other 60 home games, anywhere from 7,000 to 17,000 actually sit in the seats.

    30,000 or 40,000 seats sit empty for 60 home games a year.

    And I’m speaking “for a vocal minority”. And I’m speaking for Drew and not the dismissed thousands who don’t go anymore?

    Wow…

    We haven’t even talked about the people downtown who invested their life savings to open up, say, The Wharf Rat, entrusting the baseball team to put 3 million people in the stadium from April until October so that they could achieve their own version of The American Dream.

    Anyone that thinks baseball is just “fun” should go down to Pickles Pub on a Tuesday night in June and ask the owner of the place how much “fun” he’s having these days.

    Ask the cab drivers in town how much the summer nights are.

    Ask the bartender at the Hyatt.

    Ask the people who sell you peanuts at the stadium if it’s “fun” when there are 8,000 people in the park and they go home with $48 wadded up in their pockets at night’s end.

    I realize you cats who JUST LOVE BASEBALL don’t think about that shit and don’t think it’s important…but I do. Because those people are BALTIMORE people whose lives/careers/businesses have been wrecked by the downturn of baseball in Baltimore.

    I happen to KNOW people who bought restaurants and bars in and around the stadium in the mid 1990′s and did so on the premise that the baseball and football teams would functionally keep them in business long enough for them to send their kids to college and give them a downtown business to run in their adult life.

  • neal s

    Drew, let’s not get into you telling me what I think is important, OK?

    I’m well aware of the economic distress that an empty stadium creates, and if you’ll recall I made it a point last year to advocate on multiple occasions that people spend some time and money in those establishments. I did so myself many times, as well.

    And if you slow down for just a second you might realize that my point about going to some games anyway — despite losing and/or disagreements with management — would help those businesses.

    You want to blame the team for that? Have at it. I place just as much blame at the feet of people. Individual people making choices. Pretty simple, really.

  • df1570

    You should work for the team, Neal.

    They too blame the fans, me, the other members of the media and to some degree even the Ravens for their woes.

    I have to run, gang.

    I’m on baby duty and I hear Ethan crying in the other room.

    He either needs changed or he heard about Albers’ outing today.

    Probably both.

    Enjoyed it…have a good weekend. I’ll check back if I can, but if I disappear, it’s ‘cuz I’m dealing with diapers and feeding my little boy Stage 1 carrots.

  • KonaBoy

    I just hope that everyone here realizes that every time Drew writes a long asinine post (or do I repeat myself?) the urge to just ignore the post and scroll on begins to take the logical leap to “should I even bother clicking on that discussion?” to “should I even stop by TLC today?”.

    Just thought I would let you all know…

  • Big Ben's Motorcycle

    konaboy that’s pretty sad if you want to go to a site where everyone shares the same opinion as you. sayin’.

  • Greg

    I just hope you understand that the only thing that can come of a mass boycott of the Orioles will be evidenced by the Montreal Expos. The owner will not step down and say “Aw shucks guys was I really doing that awful at running a team?… oh well… here ya go Cal they’re all yours”.

  • neal s

    I understand what you’re saying, Kona. I’d be bummed if that makes you stop dropping in but that’s up to you.

    Much of what Drew says is, to me, a roadmap of how not to feel about the team. But I still think contrasting ideas and passion on both sides make for the best conversation. Doubly so since we all seem to manage to stay basically respectful here, which is exactly the point.

    That said, I do think we can probably put the “what it means to be an O’s fan” discussion to rest for a little while. Everybody pretty much knows where everyone else stands by now, and with spring training underway, the start of NFL free agency, local college b-ball, the Caps making their playoff push, etc there is plenty to talk about. And, hopefully, debate.

  • KonaBoy

    BBM, please don’t put words in my mouth, all I’m saying is that these protracted bouts do nothing to help keep readers here.

  • Big Ben's Motorcycle

    fair enough KB. i find the debate interesting though. frankly if all the site did was talk endlessly about how great the orioles are i wouldn’t find it very interesting.

  • neal s

    What we want is a good mix, which I think we have for the most part. But Kona’s right to a point, which is that there comes a time in each thread where we need to make our closing statements and go grab a beer.

  • dan the man

    I think it’s funny that after almost every single debate involving Drew, he leaves on the diaper note. Almost every time. Like it’s not obvious that his child is more important than a TLC debate. It’s ok, man, change the diaper, no need to announce it and make the rest of us relate you to a poopy diaper. ;)

    @ BBM: You came around TLC sometime last season and I remember getting into it with you about this same O’s fan debate, but you’re one of my favorite commenters now. So it’s clear that we can’t all just say the same things and have this be a productive, fun place to visit.

    But I do agree with Kona that when the debates get long-winded, repetitive, negative, etc… that it makes you want to wait until things chill out.

    Anyone know anything about Oscar Salazar? He hit a 2-run dinger today. Is this guy a legit prospect, or an older minor league vet or what?

  • dan the man

    Oh yeah and good news, guys:

    Gibbons is 0-3 in both ST games so far.