The Trembley Question
To the extent that there’s an Orioles discussion anymore, it largely surrounds the question of whether or not manager Dave Trembley should return in 2010. Whether or not the man who stepped into the thick of a messy rebuilding process has done enough to stick around and see it (hopefully) come to fruition. It is, as they say, complicated.
On one side: he stays because we don’t really know what he’s capable of. The fact that he started this season with Adam Eaton in the rotation pretty much proves he never had a full deck to play. Give him a chance with a good team.
On the other: he goes because he’s not even getting the best out of the guys that are here. He seems like a nice guy but he’s in over his head and we need a strong leader to come in and take this team to the next level. Baserunning blunders and mental errors abound, and isn’t he supposed the be the guy who’s all about fundamentals?
I doubt I’m the only one who thinks both sides are right.
There’s a lot to like about DT. He’s got a great attitude, he respects the game, and he hasn’t lost the team despite a hefty dose of struggle. Melvin Mora is the only player who’s ever called him out and, come on, it’s Melvin Mora we’re talking about. Even Ryan Freel — as whacked out and disgruntled a player as we’ve had here in years — didn’t say anything bad about Trembley on his way out.
Then again, the results aren’t there. And by “results” I don’t even mean “wins.” I mean he hasn’t met our lowered expectations this year. The team has looked sloppy at times and the second half has been a disaster. We said the one thing we didn’t want was another late-season swoon. We ended up with that and then some.
Here’s where I’m at on it: Trembley should maybe/probably go…if.
If Andy MacPhail has a top tier replacement in mind and is damn sure he can get him. We’re talking a Bobby Valentine type. If there’s an opportunity to change the game, you take it.
Otherwise I say Trembley stays because he has earned the chance to coach a team that looks something like it’ll look when we’re contending again. That’s really the only way to get a sense of what kind of manager he is.
MacPhail is on record as saying he’ll make a decision at or near the end of the season. That’s less than a week away, so we’ll know soon. While we wait, let me say this: if bad news does come his way, you can stake last dimes that DT will accept it with a grace and dignity that’s all too rare these days. If nothing else, the man is a credit to the organization. I hope that if/when he goes, that’s how he’s remembered.
(another fine Keith Allison photo)
Hey gang. Thought I was gone forever?
Hardly.
Actually, I’m heading out to Florida tomorrow for some time in the sun away from the outside world, but I wanted to check in, because – fuck it – this place is my home on the internet, even if I’ve been slummin’ it over at CC.
Anyway, I’ll be back in a few weeks, but I want you to know two things: firstly, I’m still here but I’m probably going to dial it down a little in terms of …well, you know what. Let’s just say that the way things have gone for me I want to be a lot more chill.
But then there’s two: I’ve got some interesting things percolating in my brain, and I want to bring them here when I can. And they are very interesting thoughts. Also: the Arizona Fall League needs to be covered, and I still intend to do it.
Count me in the apathetic crowd in regards to Trembo: I like him enough, but I’ll like the next dude, too, and Trembley is nothing particularly special.
I agree on most points here. If there’s a manager out there worthy of leading this team once it contends, then by all means, make the move now. But I’m not sure who is out there, and who is willing. We know Dave is willing. He eats, sleeps, and breathes Orioles baseball. I like that.
Honestly, if we had a bullpen worth a damn, we’d have won like 5 more games in September. Without Sherrill, things have kind of fallen to shit.
At this point, I’d be in favor of giving Johnson a chance to start because he can’t seem to make his secondary pitches work for him because he doesn’t have a whole lot of chances to practice throwing them. But I realize he’s damn near the only sure thing in the bullpen, so whatever. Albers and Ray are crapshoots and will have to win roles next year. Sarfate, Henn, and Lambert could get waived. I have no idea why Jim Miller isn’t on this team right now. Maybe now that the McCrory experiment is over he’ll get a few looks. But it seems to me the guy has earned a shot.
Count me in the “give him a two-year extension camp”.
I do like the attitude he’s brought to the team. The baserunning blunders are inexcusable. The easy way to solve this (or at least attempt to solve it)? One of the conditions of the extension is to make him replace Juan Samuel.
Hey, if the baserunning sucks, replace the baserunning coach, right? Let’s not kid ourselves. Juan isn’t exactly Cal Sr. as a 3rd base coach.
Secondly, I don’t think a Bobby Valentine type wants to come here. If a rational manager takes a look at the history here, he realizes he probably doesn’t have a shot.
We all trace it back to Davey Johnson, but a longer view shows that only Mike Hargrove has lasted a full four seasons here since… Earl Weaver?!?!?
The horses are almost here. Give the jockey a chance to ride them.
I would understand firing DT just to generate interest and turn the page on 13 years of futility. Again. But I really hope they retain him. I have to admit it: I like the guy, for all the reasons Neal mentions. I am puzzled by the sloppiness this year, but in terms of getting the best out of the players he has, I think it’s a mixed picture. Bergesen, Wieters, Reimold, Jones (for part of the year) and even Pie blossomed under DT. Izturis has had a good year. There’s blame to go around on the bullpen, but the Sherrill trade looms over everything. Signing a Bobby-Valentine type (assuming one is available and would come here) is oh-so-Washington Redskins, and we see where that’s gotten them. There’s no such thing as a miracle worker, and I’d just as soon avoid deluding ourselves. So I hope the O’s just do the right thing and give Trembley a chance to manage in a much better situation. I just won’t bet on it.
On the topic of the September collapse, I wonder how much blame goes to Trembley? Certainly not Jones’s injury or Reimold’s. I don’t think Markakis’s coma at the plate is his fault. The Sherrill trade was just a killer. Most nights the starting pitcher has been a rookie. At some point, if you take away enough pieces, there’s not much anyone could do.
@Larry – I think you’re right to point out all of those things. And, also, great points about the players who did manage to thrive this year (I’d add Roberts to the list).
And not to make this a love-fest, but I also agree with you that the tea leaves all seem to point in the direction of him not being back.
More and more I find myself hoping he gets another shot, though. I think he’s earned it.
Two points: first of all, everyone agrees that Trembley is not responsible for this being a poor team, worsened greatly by trading its cleanup hitter and best reliever for future considerations, and for an overprotective GM policy of shutting down players who might have contributed in September (Uehara, Jones, Reimold, Mickolio). But Trembley is a subpar leader and a poor strategist who is probably responsible for 10 of the 100 losses. The worst of his decisions has been his pitching mismanagement: he takes out effective starters because of the pitch count, and he takes out effective relievers because of his 1-inning at a time philosophy.
The second point deals with the supposed futility of a revolving door of managers. Recall that Mazzilli, Perlozzo and Trembley were all first-time managers. Nor has any other team offered either of the first two a chance to try again. Obviously the most successful candidates are already employed and won’t be available, but let’s find someone with proven major-league experience this time. Look what happened to the Rockies when they hired Jim Tracy!
@Cyril – Also very good points.
This might just be an “In Andy We Trust” situation. There are pros and cons no matter which way he goes.
If we follow the logic of Cowherd, the Rays should have fired Joe Madden after the 2007 season when they finished last in the AL. How did 2008 work out? Lets not forget that the biggest comeback in Os history came when DT was at the helm. 9 run comeback over Boston. Mired in a crapslide they compete until the last 2 innings. STill havent quit. Just don’t have the weapons to outscore the bullpen. Keep him.
Pitch count and inning(s) restrictions are regimented in all of baseball, and are most commonly watched with young pitchers. Just look at the Yankees and the restrictions they impose on their young pitchers, Chamberlain and Hughes, as perfect examples. The fact is, the Orioles are still a rebuilding team and, while winning is always desirable, protecting young arms from career ending injuries is most prudent. No one can legitimately argue that risking a healthy arm would be smart, particularly considering the Orioles late season standings in the division.
It remains realistic to support the Orioles, McPhail, and Trembley, while they painstakingly continue their still-in-progress rebuilding plan. Together, have a vested interest in continuing the team’s rebuilding process, and, likely represent the best opportunity for ultimate success. Management continuity is essential for the Orioles to get past the collective failures that we all, in turn, hope to get past.
The pound of flesh that many seem to want should be found in the player talent re-evaluations that follow the season’s end, and which only the current management team, intact, can accurately assess.
What on God’s good earth is wrong with you people!? Everybody it seems wants to give Trembley every excuse and alibi known to man to keep him.
Dave Trembley is the epitome of bad baseball management. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer by any stretch of the imagination..
Trembley couldn’t get run out town fast enough for some of us. It is no wonder the O’s keep having losing season after losing season because some people accept it.
And this so-called “rebuilding project” has been nothing but a major castrophe.
Lets not rebuild, lets get an extreme make over.
By the way, how many of you would accept the Ravens using this kind of strategy?
Great takes, and awesome to see new voices chiming in. I hope you’ll all stick around and not hesitate to continue contributing.